And, that's kinda the point I was getting at. Wordcraft, if we want to use that word, is all about using the right word or phrase to evoke reaction from the audience.Cognitive learning solutions but, in order to ignore wordcraft, we need to have an audience that is already steeped in the literary context of the RPG. And, yes, I do say literary context since many RPG's are based very strongly on written works.Cognitive learning solutions whether you want to look at something like D&D with it's appendix N, or vampire and its ties to all sorts of vampire stories, or fate with its strong ties to pulps, or savage worlds, again tied to pulps, or prince valiant which is directly based off of a comic book series.Cognitive learning solutions for those of us genre nerds who have read these works, it's easy to shorthand lots of things. We already have the context built in because we've read the literature which drew our attention through wordcraft.Cognitive learning solutions

Pemerton mentioned my participation in the skills threads. But, I realized something out of those threads. What I do and what a lot of the method:goal folks do is virtually the same.Cognitive learning solutions I just skip a few steps simply because of familiarity with my group and the rules. It doesn't bother me if a player calls for a skill check because, well, we've all played together for a very long time and we pretty much know when skill checks are going to be called anyway.Cognitive learning solutions but, if we got a new player or two at the table, I imagine we'd, for a while at least, fall back into a more formal style.

The problem is, while you are having this discussion about using different terms from different media, that's never actually been the point.Cognitive learning solutions who cares if these things appear in cinema or whatever? It doesn't matter.The point is and has been that it is inaccurate to refer to 'narrative devices' as a "literary" when discussing ttrpgs as a medium/genre.Cognitive learning solutions if you believe and/or demonstrate that ttrpgs are literature, as maxperson attempted to argue in this thread, then it would be applicable. Even if we summarize pemerton's meaning of "literary" to mean "wordcraft," that does not make your (mis)use of "literary" acceptable because your use of "literary" in this thread also involves equivocating its meaning between pemerton's use, literature, and making categorical mistakes when you are discussing narratology.Cognitive learning solutions and that has basically been a part of your discussion of various elements as "literary devices" when you are actually referring to "narrative devices" when discussed in the context of ttrpgs.Cognitive learning solutions if context matters, as per what you suggest in your worldbuilding "epiphany," then it would likely be appropriate if you applied an understanding of context when discussing narrative devices in ttrpgs.Cognitive learning solutions

I think genre fiction can still rise to the literary level. Depending on your measures of what makes something literature, you can probably make a good argument that conan has had the impact, is lasting, and strikes enough of a chord that it is literature.Cognitive learning solutions I think he wrote better than love craft actually in terms of prose. Been a few years since I read R E howard though. These things are always debatable.Cognitive learning solutions the point is just not all books you like are literature. Most books I have read, particularly genre fiction, are definitely not what I would teen literature

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The problem is, while you are having this discussion about using different terms from different media, that's never actually been the point. Who cares if these things appear in cinema or whatever?Cognitive learning solutions it doesn't matter. The point is, none of these elements EVER appear in conversation. Pemerton's basic point has been that it's the conversation of an RPG - the back and forth, plain language conversation during the game that drives the action and it's the situations and the content of the conversations that drives the emotional connection.Cognitive learning solutions

...Re without world building, or at the very least, setting creation. Yes, it's also done in movies and, well, any narrative form, true, but, remember, the contrast here ISN'T between literary and narrative.Cognitive learning solutions the contrast here is between literary and CONVERSATION. That's always been the problem aldarc. You are arguing against something that has never been the point.Cognitive learning solutions the contrast, right from the opening of this whole thread has been between the "literary" and the "conversational" where it is the content of the situation that drives emotional connection, NOT anything to do with the literary.Cognitive learning solutions that these literary elements also appear in other media is beside the point because we're not contrasting different forms of media.

Now, would you say that world building has any place in conversation?Now it is my turn to ask how you are defining your terms, because you appear to be doing some heavy equivocation of terms here, especially around what you mean by "literary," keeping in mind how pemerton has defined his sense with how you are using it here almost interchangeably with other meanings.Cognitive learning solutions

I've been cogitating the whole "literary" thing and I think I had a bit of an epiphany. It goes back to my example of the vengaurak, many pages ago.Cognitive learning solutions basically, I posted a couple of descriptions, one in modern jargon, and one in more "gamey" sort of speak to describe a monster from the scarred lands setting.Cognitive learning solutions it was pemerton's reaction that led me to my current feeling of epiphany. He replied, and I'm paraphrasing here, "so what? Why should I care about this monster?"

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And, really, he's right. Without context, that monster is just a stat block and a picture. It's no different or more engaging than any of a thousand other monsters that have graced the pages of D&D over the years when it's removed from context.Cognitive learning solutions but, see, that's where the literary aspect comes in - building context. World building, while certainly not limited to the literary, is a primarily story telling element.Cognitive learning solutions we don't do world building in a conversation. Pemerton talked about how getting a letter from a relative has a viceral element and it's true, it does.Cognitive learning solutions but, that's because it's part of the real world and all the context is built right in. In a second world, you need to create that context for the reader, or, in the case of an RPG, the player.Cognitive learning solutions and, you create that context through literary conceits like world building.